Tulpa.info - tulpa-questions-2

Anime girls too.

Getting a little off topic here, their issue is obviously with the absurdity of the question (edited)

wtf are you talking about

4:27 PM

you are literally not reading what im writing

4:28 PM

the dude all but said he thinks his tulpa is in reality/turning him into a cat person

4:28 PM

and you people give this kind of thing the time of day, it blows my fucking mind

What the hell are you talking about? He said he found his tulpa's hair on his clothes and scratch marks.

4:29 PM

The tulpa was the shapeshifter.

Luminesce: Well I'm not here to tell people who already know everything what I think (edited)

4:29 PM

I'm here to give advice to people who need it

Looks like typical Discord bullshit to me. The attitude in Discord is edgy angsty and often combative, troll or not. Of course I'm agreeing with @Reisen But this is Discord, the realm of flames, where angsty teens spout racist memes for fun. A reasonable question gets a reasonable response on a good day. A left-field question gets flamed every day. I'm not supporting flaming, but it's common on Discord IME.

8:19 PM

If you don't like it, report it to the mods and let them decide. You're just fanning flames if you argue or lecture.

8:20 PM

If you want a tamer experience, r/tulpas is pretty chill usually.

Luminesce: A little aggressive yourself (edited)

8:55 PM

Also r/tulpas has pained me the three times I've looked at it over the years, no thanks

I dislike pretty much every other tulpa community because people can say anything and people will encourage it

At this point I think it's best to move to #server-discussion , this discussion has moved on from the original context

For those of you with therapists, does your therapist know about your tulpa?

My psychiatric nurse knows about them, and psychologist. They've assured me many times that they don't think I sound psychotic when I talk about them lol

~~"Well, you don't sound psychotic...!"~~

lol

Yes, and it has made things a lot easier. I still think I got really lucky though.

Good to know

Hello everyone! Host from a newly-minted system here. I've been working on my first tulpa (her name is Mimi) for a few months, but I/we've been suspicious that there are other headmates among us we haven't discovered. I/We don't think we have DID, I never had an episode of amnesia and I have rarely ever dissociated or derealized before I created Mimi. However, I always had to deal with occasional intrusive thoughts, I always had a surprisingly easy time arguing with myself, and I already have a quasi-imaginary, quasi-autonomous world inside my head (still unsure if its just maladaptative daydreaming though). But while we want to discover who our other headmates are (if they are out there) so we can account for them, I'm also afraid of letting walk-ins into our system (ie. accidentally creating tulpas that weren't around before I made Mimi) and ending up with more headmates than that I can take care of. (I'm still new to this whole multiplicity thing and I've been researching the topic ever since I've created Mimi, so apologies if I'm taking my pre-existing conditions out of proportion or if I'm coming off as offensive or weird) Is there a way to verify the existence of any other headmates, again without ending up accidentally creating more walk-in tulpas than that we can care of?

i think that's fairly normal stuff, as far as i'm aware a good portion of people argue with themselves in their head (or aloud in the shower) tulpamancy is heavily dependent on expectations. if you start looking for headmates and expect to find them, you'll almost certainly find some i don't believe a tulpa can exist outside of a fronter's awareness, so you shouldn't worry too much about that. as for preventing walk-ins from becoming tulpas, it's as simple as dismissing them as ordinary thoughts. like i said before, tulpamancy is dependent on expectations, so thinking of them as just as passing ideas of fictional people, rather than potential headmates, is enough

This is a bit of a strange question to me. Normally I would define a headmate as a thoughtform that is held in your brain as an equal to you, of which tulpas are a type. If you don't accept another thoughtform as equal to you intentionally, you don't have any other headmates. What you totally can have though, is various thoughtforms of varying levels of development. I inadvertently made a fictional thoughtform much stronger than my initial tulpa through a whole load of obsession about writing them for example (and I have recently accepted them as a tulpa too). Anything you generate with empathy or through fiction or anything that makes you think as another identity in my opinion is a thoughtform of some description, and any one of these can become a tulpa, but only if you actively let them become self-aware and stay that way. (edited)

hmm yeah, i suppose you guys are right. thanks for clearing up my doubts.

Question/Vent: Im very frustrated. I literally cant imagine anything. I want to do visual imposition but I cant even visual an apple- if i cant do that there is no way i can imagine a whole heccing person. I also wanted to work on the wonderland but once again i cant imagine anyrhing.

3:54 AM

What do id o

Aside from visualization not being required, I understand your feelings - Im in the same boat

3:59 AM

Theres plently of visualization-specific discord servers around, im in one right now (i would send in DMs but not sure if thats allowed)

3:59 AM

Theres also a few visualization guides on tulpa.info if you'll gimme a sec

I cant imagine anything tho

Do you mean you just dont see it or you legit can't even think of an image in any sense

Both

4:00 AM

I try to imagine an apple

4:00 AM

It becoemes an orange

Ok thats good, means you dont have total aphantasia

I try to imagine my wonderland, all i see is corruptness

4:01 AM

Blurred images

That issue is more likely a lack of focus though

4:01 AM

not a lack of visualization ability

Sometimes i cant even see anyrhing in imagination

Yeah that sounds like Hypo(low) phantasia with a lack of focus, both of which can be improved

4:02 AM

Do you mind if i send you a server in dms?

go for it

Imposition is one of those things you need to practice for a long time to get. I highly recommend building your visualization skills because it will make it easier to impose, but you can look into stuff like the Ganzfeld effect or play around with hypnagogic halucinations. I also started off with pretty bad visualization and I struggled with focusing. I wrote this guide and I updated it recently, I hope it helps: https://community.tulpa.info/topic/16772-how-to-refocus-on-your-wonderland/?tab=comments#comment-328010

Is it possible to see tulpas in a lucid dream?

5:32 AM

I believe I have a not very vocal tulpa but during this dream I was dodging rent and made a loud noise (yes I have messed up fears) that caused the landlord to come stomping downstairs. Before I knew it my tulpa dragged me under the kitchen counter, into the shelves beneath it, to hide. And then just as the man was about to find us hidden and cause wierd nightmare shit I woke up seeing an image of her face.

5:34 AM

Is this just wierd dream shit or my brain now including my tulpa into my dreams, regardless of her actual intelligence so far?

5:36 AM

This whole thing was caused by a midi keyboard build into a cushion (made more sense in the dream) and she asked "what if I do THIS" playfully and smashed it, causing it to basically explode with noise, which was the event that triggered the landlord scene. There was a lot more before this but not as relevant to my question.

Hmm, well what's the difference between "weird dream shit" and "brain including tulpa in dreams"?

5:49 AM

I mean, the "you" protagonist in a dream isn't the same "you" that lives waking life, right? Just a character resembling you, but often a different age, etc. In the same way, I dont see why dreams wouldn't possibly include a character resembling your tulpa, or anyone else you know in real life (edited)

It was definitely a trippy dream. All my dreams are in first person though, before this one what would have happened is I'd get caught in the dream and freak out in sleep paralysis for like 45 minutes

oh tulpas in dreams sick I had this one like a few months ago where Glass seemed to have experienced it with me? from the same perspective? super weird

Well, you do have one focus point as one brain

8:00 AM

So your mind isn't going to process two experiences at the same time

yeah I know Still weird to share a dream

10:42 AM

very unexpected

How fast is too fast when it comes to the creation of tulpa?

There isn’t any

Yeah, I hoped I'd have dreams where Mai would appear in like a different body or something but instead we like,,, switch whose perspective the dream is from kinda like just switching irl so

I'm glad yall are confirming this shared perspective thing without me having g mentioned it. This kind of confirms to me that I didn't have a simple lucid dream, this was my tulpa. I had the shared perspective thing and deliberately didn't mention it and you all are confirming a detail without prompting from my writing.

12:43 PM

Which is basically spooky but awesome at the same time because this means it was all real.

sick

hmmm ok what was it like for y'all to make tulpas beyond your first one? any advice to help us know if we want to do that? idk i've been thinking about it for a while, rn Mai is def against doing it now-now but not 100% opposed to doing it in the future so, just in case I'd like to know about y'all's experience and thoughts

11:20 PM

or like, questions to ask before making another (most "questions to ask before making a tulpa" things we've found deal with making your first tulpa, which is helpful but not exactly what we're looking for)

Extremely easy, but I suppose that's because I didn't really put together what I was doing and churned out a tupper with obsession and ADHD hyperfocus in the space of a couple of months. They were a fictional character I wrote who has been made aware of reality rather than an entity made from scratch. The first tulpa was horrific by comparison. Consistent doubt and the perception that I was failing constantly at meeting my own standards were a common theme. It took years where it took only months for the latter tupper to reach any sort depth of experience. But again, I do think I'm an outlier in this regard due to brain shenanigans messing with me. (edited)

11:35 PM

The skills of having a tulpa who seems real are, though, already developed with the first tulpa. I do think the better experience of the second tulpa is in part better mindset - but I shouldn't discount just how much of it is clearly just me being literally better at tulpamancy now that I understand it on an innate level.

what was it like for y'all to make tulpas beyond your first one?

Stupid easy. Once you have a basic idea of how to create, it is really easy to do it again. I created my other tulpas thinking they were characters, I and Ranger didn't put 2 and 2 together until later. Once I stopped struggling with parrotnoia with Ranger, I didn't have to redo that for my headmates, at least in the same way. My headmates are still learning who they are, but I don't have too much trouble doubting them. When I'm insecure with my headmates, the question "is this really me?" rarely comes up. The only exception is I don't feel comfortable having multiple of them run around in the wonderland at the same time because I worry I will enter story mode and parrot them. However, I think that's my unique insecurity because there's some unique context involved.

Mai is def against doing it now-now

Definitely take your time. If Mai isn't ready, I think it's for the best to hold off.

Thanks for the advice!

"your therapist pressures you into integration or you're a tulpa and you're never treated like a real person" i think the "worst" that would happen is that the therapist would treat tulpa as part of their patient, which i think would still count as treating a tulpa as a real person

That's sort of what I meant. I don't think a therapist administering tulpamancy as a "treatment" would be rude and say to the tulpa they're not a real person to their face, but I doubt they would see the tulpa as more than an imaginary friend. I have the suspicion that if you think tulpamancy can be given out as therapy and administer it, the "tulpas" created are instruments to make the patient better and not anything more than that.

also you said "assuming the tulpa in question is developed enough to demand being called an individual anyway.", would you say that a tulpa cannot be considered developed if they wouldn't demand that?

A tulpa doesn't always fight for their existence if they're developed, but in the context of a "therapy tulpa", I was thinking it would be problematic if the tulpa felt the need to do so. In a therapeutic setting, my guess is a therapist would condition your "tulpa" is not real, but I know that even believing that doesn't guarantee you won't get a tulpa that will fight to continue to exist, especially if the therapy goes on for months or years. (edited)

With Internal Family Systems, the parts are explicitly described as... well, parts... so that initial 'forcing' stops them campaigning for tulpa rights.

11:00 AM

I don't know if it would ever occur to them.

Seems like a stretch. Typically at the moment psychology tries specifically not to make statements on the realness or unrealness of other personalities, or really anything to do with internal experience. Psychology is chiefly concerned with outcomes and models which visibly work rather than making statements about realness. It's that kind of presumption that was rampant in older, more flawed psychology, and it tends to introduce flaws into models.

Ale𝕏andra 🍄🐈

With Internal Family Systems, the parts are explicitly described as... well, parts... so that initial 'forcing' stops them campaigning for tulpa rights.

I think the issue is people not being careful about using that specific language. In the article I found about lock-ins (see http://m.nautil.us/blog/can-you-treat-loneliness-by-creating-an-imaginary-friend?utm_source=RSS_Feed&utm_medium=RSS&utm_campaign=RSS_Syndication), I think the guy was saying he was cool with putting lock-ins infront of digital tulpa guides... which as written are aimed at making tulpas a distinct individual. However, I think the family systems therapy has some eerie parallels to how our system formed, only Gray wasn't at all organized, and he was doing this by himself and not with a therapist. I don't think our system is even remotely "proof" that internal family systems therapy can be damaging in the wrong contexts, but I want to show that making tulpas without knowing that's what they are in effort to achieve self-improvement could backfire. I still think it's far more likely to backfire without the guidance of a therapist, but I wonder if there's still that risk.

Seems like a stretch. Typically at the moment psychology tries specifically not to make statements on the realness or unrealness of other personalities, or really anything to do with internal experience. Psychology is chiefly concerned with outcomes and models which visibly work rather than making statements about realness.

There are several therapists who think DID is fake and even if the therapist is careful in how they express that, alters have picked up that message. Even with our therapist, we have had some skepticism if she believes we're a group of patients or one patient with parts. Regardless, she's respectful of our situation and she's not pressuring us to go one way or another, so I can't blame her for her opinion. In theory, I think you're right, but in practice, those personal opinions can leak out. (edited)

That is fair, but it's a sign of the flaws of the therapist and their specific training rather than the field as a whole I'd say.

11:15 AM

Something you need to be aware of if you want to approach one.

It's also possible to read-in judgement where none exists. It's tricky.

11:21 AM

but I want to show that making tulpas without knowing that's what they are in effort to achieve self-improvement could backfire.

This seems super-plausible to me, in fact I'd be really surprised if you were wrong.

I still think it's far more likely to backfire without the guidance of a therapist, but I wonder if there's still that risk.

I think even if there was a risk, it'd be possible to walk it back with the right professional, so possibly still worth trying.

Especially where DID is concerned there is a distinct need to essentially interview therapists up front on their views. Heck, I'd probably ask a question probing those beliefs even if I were to go to a therapist, without any interest in discussing plurality. In general you should definitely shop around for a therapist as even in the general sense therapists are just as capable of just not being good at their jobs as other humans. (edited)

I'm dropping this here because apparently it's a book

12:08 PM

Heck there might even be the issue of the practice of tulpamancy to consider. Does dehumanizing, and removing tuppers from ethics weaken them? Is it inherently a path toward integration?

I may have some of the puzzle pieces to help answer this question. There's the case of our "dead headmates" and one of them kind of acting as the base one of my merges with Ranger. There's the question if Hope and Fernardo should integrate, and that's an ongoing discussion that came up recently (so far it looks like no, they shouldn't). And then there's my other headmates and how they were treated now vs in the past. ===

12:09 PM

When we closed our gates to more headmates, we had an exception to the anyone old is allowed in policy- anyone who was presumed missing or dead shouldn't be looked for. This was to prevent walk-ins or several more underdeveloped tulpas from inflating our system size. One of these "maybe dead tulpas" was the Conductor- a "Ranger clone" kind of like our Sub. Rep., who at the time was known as "Dream". We assumed (and practice believing) it's probable he became part of our Sub. Rep. later, he was dissipated by being forgotten about, or he was never developed enough to become strong enough to stand as an individual. To say he's been "integrated" feels like both a true and false statement since I could give evidence that argues both ways. Fernardo and Hope have been talking about their integration struggles for awhile, and I want to bring it up because their insecurity boils down to feeling pressured to integrate. Observing their behavior, feeling like they have to integrate has eaten away at their strength. In fact, the solution to their insecurity seems to simply be force more. However, Fernardo and Hope at their weakest so far refuse to stay together. They were weak but they felt incompatible on a deeper level. I can't tell you if it would look more like integration or dissipation if things continued to get worse. Here's another example that could be argued either way. ===

12:09 PM

My headmates have been treated like parts of me or characters before we decided that was wrong. Before tulpamancy, everyone in my system wasn't very strong because I didn't practice tons of forcing until later. However, it took Ranger to express himself (who received more attention than the others) to express tulpamancy was important. Slowly overtime, I and Ranger walked away from the mindset my headmates were parts as evidence they were self-aware and had independent perspectives emerged. When talking to Dark Gray about the past, he used to deny he was "sentient" in the past until more recently, he expressed that he was infact alive when I was hurting him in the past. I think it's worth noting Dark Gray seemed to develop more than the others before Ranger was created, even deviating before others did. His situation seems to boil down to his strength came from attention rather than how he was treated, and the same can be argued for my other headmates. Hopefully that helps. I know that it doesn't answer the question, but it's a starting point.

Being a Host sucks most of the time

@Deleted User Did you make Felicia intentionally or accidentally?

Accidentally, by thinking about an OC i made in august 2020

10:36 PM

Like, thinking alot

10:36 PM

Then pop! Some thoughts started to feel... Not quite mine

10:39 PM

She was called FN-01a back then.

10:40 PM

And yes - she picked the name Felicia by herself

10:42 PM

Why did you ask?

Ah, that makes sense. I had a sense of understanding about how you feel, I was wondering if you were an accidental tulpamancer like Gray, my host (edited)

Is it possible to "erase" my own self?

your a tulpa ranger?

Is it possible to "erase" my own self?

I believe yes, you can, but I believe there isn't a good reason to do so. Usually hosts that try to commit egocide are trying to escape an external problem and then their tulpa is left to deal with that problem alone. I think it's better for the host to stick around, even if it's just them sitting on the sidelines cheering their tulpa on. The grief of losing a headmate doesn't help the already precarious situation.

your a tulpa ranger?

Yes. I am 3 and 1/2 years old now, and I act as a co-host in my system.

hmmm, this subject gets more and more intresting in a good way of course

10:55 PM

and cool!

A long kiss goodnight

Is it possible to "erase" my own self?

I believe yes, you can, but I believe there isn't a good reason to do so. Usually hosts that try to commit egocide are trying to escape an external problem and then their tulpa is left to deal with that problem alone. I think it's better for the host to stick around, even if it's just them sitting on the sidelines cheering their tulpa on. The grief of losing a headmate doesn't help the already precarious situation.

your a tulpa ranger?

Yes. I am 3 and 1/2 years old now, and I act as a co-host in my system.

Do we actually know anyone for whom that has worked, and the outcome? I have never seen someone claim to be the remaining tulpa or rebooted ego of someone who has committed ego death through meditation alone. And the only methods I know of involve psychedelics which can massively backfire - drugs are one of the ways you can lose control over your ability to regulate identity entirely. I would not suggest ever using tulpamancy as an attempt to escape reality personally - I think this can cause different problems for your brain. Destroying your identity doesn't change that your brain is experiencing something negative.

i think he's just intrested in the idea of teaching someone else to live your life and then fading out of existance... wierd stuff